A cool young man named Sam Richardson contacted me recently by e-mail, he lives in Charlottesville, Virginia, where I lived a long time ago. He’s involved with the hardcore punk scene there. Sam wanted to interview me for a local zine called “Got Myself”, because he’d done his research and discovered that I was one of the “OGs” who helped start the scene there in the early 80s.
(If you are young and don’t know what a zine is, here’s a good explanation.)
It was really touching to be asked to do this, I was very honored, and got the finished interview back to him within 48 hours. I’m psyched that there’s still a scene there, and that something I had a small part in starting is still happening. (Though if I hadn’t, someone else certainly would have done the little bit of work I did. And a lot of people other than me were as involved, and more involved, most of them are mentioned in the interview.)
I love how much this zine looks and feels almost exactly like zines from back then. It’s a blast from the past, from the not-too-distant present.
This zine could be from 1984, and that’s a good thing. The band names have changed, but the format and mood is the same. The only minor differences I could find between this zine and zines from back then is there’s the occasional Web address next a band name, and the bands are complaining about George W. Bush, whereas we were all complaining about Ronald Reagen.
Here’s the whole interview:
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Interview with Michael W. Dean about early 80s Charlottesville music scene. Interview by Sam Richardson
URLS for Michael W. Dean: Blog: www.stinkfight.com Baby Opaque: www.babyopaque.com The Beef People: www.kittyfeet.com/beef.htm Bomb (Michael’s later band in San Francisco, that was signed to Warner Brothers): www.hitsofacid.com
1.) What shows do you remember playing at Muldowney’s or Trax? What kind of regional acts played in Charlottesville? Any especially crazy moments from those shows?
Thanks man. First, I wanna say I’m psyched that there’s a continuing scene in Ch’Ville, and honored to be asked to yack about it. I’ll be “grandpa punk” to tell you about the old days, where we had to walk 20 miles through the snow to practice, barefoot, uphill both ways. Lol….
Let’s see….. Muldowney’s Pub. Muldowney’s was a gay Irish bar on the Downtown Mall. Back then being gay or punk in Virginia could get your ass kicked, so they let us play there…outcasts hosting other outcasts. We did shows on their off nights, they made money on booze, we helped clean up after each show, it worked out nicely.
I played shows at Muldowney’s with my bands Baby Opaque and with the Beef People. I played bass and sang lead in Baby Opaque, played guitar and sang backup in the Beef People.
I first came to Ch’Ville with a DC (Arlington, actually) band called “The Day I Lost My Virginity.” I’m still friends with Peggy, the bass player. Four years ago, I introduced her to her boyfriend (now fiancé), Tad, of the Subpop band by the same name. The Day I Lost My Virginity had two different drummers during their existence, Franklin Molin (now a lawyer) who played with Iron Cross and Michael Salkind (now also a lawyer) who played in No Trend.
The drummer for Baby Opaque, Michael Berube, is now a college professor at Penn State. He’s also an author.
I liked Ch’ville so much that I moved down there after The Day I Lost My Virginity broke up. Started Baby Opaque, put out two records on John Beers’ “Catch Trout” label. The same label also put out The Beef People E.P. (Which is actually being re-released this year in the UK on Vinyl, with some unreleased tracks, by Damaged Records.)
Bands I played with at Muldowney’s: Circle Jerks (amazing show, Muldowney’s was tiny, I think the fire code max was like 69 people, though that night we went well over. And the cover charge was 4 bucks, a dollar more than we’d ever charged before), Gwar, Honor Roll (came from Richmond with White Cross and the Prevaricators in a rented Greyhound bus, brought about 50 paying customers with them too). Scream (someone gave me a black kitten after the show, I named it Skeeter after their Scream’s awesome bass player. Dave Grohl was in the band too, later went on to play in Nirvana, and later to be, well, Dave Grohl. Scream where SO good. They were unreal live. Probably my favorite DC band.)
As for Ch’ville bands, there was a great punk/hardcore band of sweet good ole boys called “Lackey Die.” There was a cool Paisley Underground / 60s punk group called “98 Colors.” There was a noise band called “LCD” (Lowest Common Denominator). And a nationally popular noise band called “The Happy Flowers” - that was John Beers and Charlie Kramer from the excellent hardcore band, “The Landlords.” (I’m still friends with John, and still very close friends with Charlie.) The drummer of The Landlords, Tristan Puckett still lives in Ch’ville, teaches chemistry at Charlottesville High School. The bass player, Colum Leckey, is an anthropologist.
There was a local band called Rude Buddha (not the hardcore band that later stole the name) who were astonishing, and kinda defied description. Put it this way: sometimes the woman who sang, sang in Russian. They were very popular in Ch’Ville back then. Rude Buddha moved to NYC, and broke up because of drugs. I moved to San Francisco, started Bomb, got signed to Warner Brothers, and Bomb broke up because of drugs.
There was another cool club, across the street from Trax, in the basement of the post office, called the Mineshaft. They had a lot of hippie jam bands, but also had alternative bands sometimes. I worked there as a bar back. The place was always packed, but went out of business because of drugs. The owner snorted all the profits up his nose.
Trax: I promoted shows with 9353, helped out with and/or played shows with Battalion of Saints, TSOL and others. Trax was huge, a big blues, country and metal joint that had cheesy reunion bands on the weekends, bands like Grand Funk Railroad with no original members and such. Sometimes on off nights they had punk. Big place, lousy treatment of punk bands (and audience) from the management, but very good sound system and lights. I never cared so much about lights, but always felt it was a treat to play somewhere that I could actually hear myself in the monitors.
Also, there was another place, on the mall, the C&O. It was sort of a dinner restaurant bar. Kind of more a family-friendly place that catered to more upscale college students. I think it’s still there. They had shows too.. Baby Opaque, the Landlords, Rude Buddha, 98 Colors and LCD all played there.
I can’t finish without mentioning that there was a hardcore band of high school students called “The Bloody Crotches.” They were really good. The Beef People played a few shows with them.
2.) I hear there was a punk/hc show on WTJU, could you tell me about that?
John Beers did it, he can tell you more. It was great though, and he’d play almost anything on it, not only punk. It was cool. I used to go down and hang out and watch him spin.
John was my roommate. He loves music, and is an avid record collector. One thing I remember about him was his quest to have hardcore punk music from every state in America. I remember the day he completed his collection, after buying a two-song cassette by mail order from some unknown band in Hawaii. He was so happy that day.
We had a neighbor next door to that house who was really sweet, and always sat on his porch reading books and sipping lemonade. He always said hi to us. One day, the FBI came and took him away. Turns out he’d murdered his wife and kids in North Carolina years earlier, moved to Ch’ville and assumed a new identity.
I had a show on WTJU for exactly one night. Got kicked off for destroying a Madonna record on air. Unfortunately the music director at the time liked Madonna. A lot. And the record belonged to the station.
Dale from 98 Colors got kicked off WTJU too, but he was on for years and years. It’s a funny story: he was doing a 2 AM to 6 AM shift. No one was calling in with requests. After repeatedly asking people to call in, finally begging people to call in, he decided there was NO ONE listening. He stopped a record in the middle of a song and issued a fake news alert. Said, “Yes, people. It’s true. Elvis Costello is dead.” And then played a bunch of Elvis Costello songs as a “tribute.”
Well, apparently someone WAS listening, and they told some other people, and the story got reprinted as true in newspapers all up and down the East Coast. Dale got kicked off the air, because it’s a violation of FCC rules to broadcast untruths, especially anything that will panic people in any way. (Though it is my opinion that I’m not sure how Fox News stays on TV….)
There was a story I heard that a few years before I lived in Ch’ville, a WTJU DJ who was moving to Europe said on the air “Russia has attacked the US with nuclear missiles”, locked the station door, took a taxi to the airport and split the country for good.
3.) Did any bands from Richmond like White Cross, Graven Image, Honor Role, Unseen Force, Absence of Malice, Prevaricators every come play in Charlottesville?
I covered White Cross, Honor Role, Prevaricators above. I saw Absence of Malice, dug them.
How about bands from Roanoke like MNP and Eggbert?
Don’t remember them. Remember a band from somewhere in Virginia, maybe Blacksburg, called “The Non-Dairy Screamers.” Don’t remember the band, just that I liked the name, and the stickers. (A cow with a red line through it.) I thought that was pretty funny.
Unseen Force, Graven Image,
Yeah, not my thing, but I remember them.
Mostly I liked and remembered Gwar, who grew out of Death Piggy. Death Piggy were GREAT! And Dave Brockie hit me in the head by accident with his bass at a Death Piggy show at Muldowney’s. I had to have three stitches. Still have the scar. Good times, good times.
I remember a Bomb show with Death Piggy in Raleigh, NC. Was the first time either band played there. There were more people on stage that night total than there were in the audience all night. Mike Dean from COC was there. I’m not him, in case anyone is wondering. Though he did get kicked out of the band that night, and the band told me they were going to do it, I knew it a couple hours before he did. They later got him back, when they realized they sucked without him and were awesome with him. He also came to a Bomb show when he lived in Atlanta, and we were both bike messengers a the same time, and hung out, when he later lived in San Francisco.
4.) Were there any stores that sold punk or hardcore records at the time?
Yup. Plan 9 had a store there. There was another one, ask John Beers. He’ll remember the name. I don’t. I was too busy with my own music to buy music by other people much. Sounds kinda selfish, but I was on a mission. I’m still on a mission. I don’t read a lot of books because I’m too busy writing books for a living now.
5.) Were there ever any confrontation(s) between the UVA frat types and punks back then?
Ah….not much with me, but I kept to myself. Someone threw a bottle out of a truck at me once, but they missed. I got thrown out of a few frat parties, but I probably deserved it. I used to drink a lot, and was not a pleasant drunk. And was probably only there for the free beer. I do know of confrontations that other people had, but mostly people yelling sexual rude stuff to women out of moving cars. I think frat boys were afraid of punkers. At least when they were outnumbered, which they usually were when the two groups mixed.
I usually looked like a hippie back then, had long hair much of the time, looked more hippie (or maybe metalhead hesher) than punk. A lot of the frats, at least the ones I hung out at, were kinda hippie in Ch’ville back then. Sigma Nu got busted for having an LSD lab in their basement in the 80s.
A lot of frats wanted John to join because his last name is “Beers.” We thought that pretty ironic, since he’s straight edge.
I wasn’t a UVA student, John and Charlie and most of the other people in bands were, except me and Lackie Die. (And the rest of the Beef People, and the Bloody Crotches, who were high school students).
I remember I wanted to put “One dollar off with UVA student I.D.” on a Muldowney’s show flyer, but the guys in Lackie Die talked me out of it. There was a good bit of townie vs. student animosity back then. Not sure if that still exists, but it did then, maybe even more than frat boy vs. punker conflict.
6.) Any other venues besides Muldowney’s and Trax? Any other local punk/hc bands besides Beef People, Baby Opaque, Lackey Die, and the Landlords?
Covered above.
7.) Do you remember anything about the Beef People and the Landlords being on a comp. tape called “War Against The States: South”?http://youbreedlikerats.blogspot.com/2008/05/war-between-states-south-tape.html, does that ring a bell?
I’ve heard about it, but only recently, from a friend sending me an e-mail. I do so much art in so many mediums that I don’t have time to track down places it’s used. I’m too busy doing new stuff.
Anyway, thanks man. I’m pretty amazed at the staying power of these “little bands that could” and the “little scene that could” that my friends and I helped foster 25 years ago. I’ve done more interviews about that scene lately than I used to do back then. And I’m really glad there’s still cool stuff happening there.
Keep up the good work, sir.
P.S. John Beers was the man. He really made the scene happen more than anyone, in my recollection.
– Michael W. Dean, Los Angeles, summer 2008
Episode 0071 - goodbye to all our sweet friends! (get MP3)
